Christian Chapter Chat

9.08.2006

Chains

I must say, the author really knows how to weave a story. I wish I could write more vividly. :)

As I see it, though, a detriment that can (sometimes) arise from such picturesque writing is that it leans toward being euphemistic. Example: "Compromise, unbelief and idolatry swayed their hearts. They left the land of slavery, but they took their chains along. A shadow had ensnared their souls." (and there are more examples) Descriptive language, to be sure. But, I think we need to remember that these chosen people of God were downright disobedient. Disobedient because they possessed a sin nature from birth. Ergo, they had a natural bent toward sin. As do we.

Genesis 6:5 - Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

And again in Genesis 8:21 - The LORD smelled the soothing aroma; and the LORD said to Himself, "I will never again curse the ground on account of man, for the intent of man's heart is evil from his youth

Yeah, people, the Israelites were evil. We're evil. I'M evil. Makes me shudder, actually, because that's a REAL harsh word and a real hard truth. Thank God for His Holy Sprit who lives within me, so that at least I'm able to be inclined to holiness. The Bible says (Romans 8) we're not able to choose Him, or be inclined toward God unless He regenerates our hearts. So the good news is, as Believers, we don't have to be slaves to sin.

No doubt there are some very difficult truths in Scripture, and they must be taught. Sin is sin, and not only does it separate us from the Holy God, it is an offense to Him. As God grants us His grace, we (I) must be willing to come before Him with a contrite heart, broken over my sin. (Psalm 51:17)

Living in chains of grace...

**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**


Addendum: I was going to write this as a comment, but then thought I'd better go ahead and put it in my own post. I am very concerned about pointing our readers to Jesus, who is THE Way, the Truth and the Life - His is the world's only Savior. The truth lies within the Scriptures, nowhere else. That certainly applies to Christians, and it also applies to non-Christians, whether they believe it or not. One day, EVERY knee will bow and EVERY tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. (Phil 2:9-11).

That said, here is my concern: It bothered me the other day when I read about all this 'mystery' to God. I didn't comment on that entry, but it's been brought up again so I think I will address it.
Everything about God is NOT wrapped up in mystery, and I think we must be very careful when we say that it is. I'm not saying there is no mystery, because He is supernatural and there most definitely IS mystery to Him. There are many things we cannot understand. (Deut 29:29 - The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever, that we may observe all the words of this law.)


BUT...

In assigning too much to the mysterious, the 'unknowable,' is to then absolve ourselves of any responsibility. (It can also lead to mysticism, contemplative prayer, Eastern religious practices - all not scriptural.) It is abundantly clear in the Scriptures exactly who God is. That's what the Bible is - God's self-revelation to us.

It is also very clear in the Word, that it's not at all about 'our choice' to 'choose' God. We don't make an intellectual decision to 'choose' Him based on the very unscriptural practice known as 'the sinner's prayer.' HE calls us to Him. (please, please read and study Romans 8 and Ephesians 1)

I cannot, in good faith, let go some of the things said without pointing to the Truth of God's word. We are admonished to contend for the faith (Jude 1:3) and be unashamed of the gospel of Christ. (Romans 1:16)

16 Comments:

  • Amen, sistah!

    One thing I do want to mention that we might be forgetting - This IS a storyteller telling his "version" of the greatest story ever told. Now, should we forgive him for being scripturally inaccurate? Heck, no! But that's where he gets some of this more colorful wording...Gire did the same thing in our last book and it drove some of us crazy at times! But it is his version (if you will) of what he imagines the story to be with fact beneath his comments and that is why the book is called "STORY."

    This is not meant as a criticism for your post cause I think this post is great but just as a reminder that the author is trying to purposefully blend non-fiction with fiction to some degree to bring the factual story to life.

    It IS a good story either way!

    By Blogger HeyJules, at 9:13 AM  

  • I don't know that I'm in 100% agreement. :)

    We certainly don't NEED another version! We have the greatest story ever told contained in the Bible. Has the word of God become so 'boring' that people need to embellish it? IMO, we don't need to blend so much fiction with fact, because the story is already beautiful. Does that make sense?

    Now don't get me wrong, though, I appreciate his writing gift. No doubt about that. And for the most part, he's gotten it right. (I was a little worried, though, in that first chapter!)

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:44 AM  

  • Gayla, Im concerned that what you offer as Truth may simply be YOUR truth b/c I know you hold pre-destination in high regards (as in we dont get to choose God and the sinners prayer is ridiculous).... but free will is MY choice, and for you to assume that it is an irrelevant choice or is not true simply b/c you dont believe it, then that gets me kind of antsy....

    not that I dont respect your opinion or beliefs b/c I think its great that this means so much to you, but I dont think its fair for you to make YOUR truth the truth for everyone.... know what I mean?

    anyway, I enjoyed the rest of your post....

    By Blogger dangermama, at 9:50 AM  

  • *oh, and yes, I did read Romans 8 and Ephesians 1, but I did not get the same interpretation as you did, which doesnt make the Scripture wrong, it also doesnt make either of our interpretations completely wrong either....

    By Blogger dangermama, at 10:12 AM  

  • Oh Addie, I hate to see this argument of 'your' truth vs 'my' truth. What I'm offering is nothing more than what the WORD OF GOD actually says.

    As I mentioned, please do a study on Romans 8 and Eph 1, and then prayerfully take it up with God. This is not my opinion. These are very real truths found in Scripture. As Believers, these truths should be vitally important to all of us.

    I would also encourage you to search the Scriptures for the concept of 'free will.' The reason I say this is because, with careful study of the Scriptures, you'll find that the theme running throughout is that of a God who is in control of His own creation. So, so much to support this that I won't cite it, but would offer it to anyone who wants to be pointed in that direction.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:23 AM  

  • Oops, we were posting at the same time.

    I would simply caution you, as well as myself, in studying those passages (and any passages).

    It's really not a matter of our own 'interpretation.' We all have a tendency to read into verses what we want to, and try to make it 'agree' with what we already think. But the point is to not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the Word. Where the Word runs contrary to our thoughts and opinions, we need to seek the Holy Spirit who will lead us into all truth.

    There is but one 'meaning' to what the writers wrote, as it was God-inspired to them. There can be many 'applications' of that Scripture, as God reaveals to us how it applies to us in whatever He may be trying to teach us.

    Context is vital; the Greek meaning of words is vital; but in the end, it says what it says and it means what it means.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:31 AM  

  • I think our interpretation is pretty important (as long as it isnt contrary to any other Scripture)... I think thats what makes the Bible cool - it is a living thing that is relevant to everyone in different ways - God will not always reveal the same things to the same people.... take Psalms 102 for example - this helped to pull me out of a depression b/c God spoke to me through it and I "interpreted" it as a solution to my depression - a friend of mine read the same thing and it meant nothing of the sort to Him....

    Im not in it for the argument, by all means.... just a caution that what YOU believe isnt always what everyone else believes and for one person to say that THEIR way is the ONLY way to believe (barring Christ, of course and that it doesnt contradict Scripture*) is a dangerous position to be in

    *and no, I dont believe free will contradicts Scripture in anyway... I do believe that it contradicts certain people's interpretations of Scripture.....

    By Blogger dangermama, at 10:42 AM  

  • I just want to add some food for thought.

    The Lamb had been slain before the foundation of the world; the names of the redeemed had been written in His book of life before the foundation of the world; and God had called those who were to be saved by His grace, before the world began (i Peter 1:20; Revelation 17:8; 2 Timothy 1:9).

    By Blogger Pilot Mom, at 11:38 AM  

  • Gayla, I appreciate what you said here...
    "In assigning too much to the mysterious, the 'unknowable,' is to then absolve ourselves of any responsibility. (It can also lead to mysticism, contemplative prayer, Eastern religious practices - all not scriptural.) It is abundantly clear in the Scriptures exactly who God is. That's what the Bible is - God's self-revelation to us.

    It is also very clear in the Word, that it's not at all about 'our choice' to 'choose' God. We don't make an intellectual decision to 'choose' Him based on the very unscriptural practice known as 'the sinner's prayer.' HE calls us to Him. (please, please read and study Romans 8 and Ephesians 1)"

    As Romans 8:7 teaches we are all born enmity (not at enmity, but pure enmity) against God. Our hearts are pure enmity, the very pits of hell and impurity and the well-spring of hostility against God. In other words, we are all born with our fists in God's face. If not for the quickening of God's Spirit we would all go to our graves hating God.

    By Blogger mark pierson, at 11:52 AM  

  • "I think thats what makes the Bible cool - it is a living thing that is relevant to everyone in different ways - God will not always reveal the same things to the same people..."

    THis is pretty much exactly what I live, love and believe. I believe God reveals, through His word and wisdom in HIS time, HIS way, with HIS meaning.

    By Blogger kpjara, at 1:54 PM  

  • I look at it all like this: I know what I know about God by reading the Bible and then by asking others to help guide me as I try to make sense and discern what God is trying to convey to me through my reading of His Word. I read the New Testament when I was first saved and it made an impact and started me moving forward in my faith. Then I talked to two of my pastors about some of what I read and it added more meaning and more clarification. Then we did the first book here at CCC and Claire and the others added even more to my depth of understanding. Over time, what I knew to be right has changed...it has grown and evolved because I have grown and evolved in my love and pursuit of God.

    When we are babies we eat baby food and ready baby books. Then comes cereals and then chicken and finally filet mignon! Each level of food enhances my experience of what food IS and each new bite of new food takes my pallet to a whole new level.

    THE POINT OF WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY HERE IS THIS: We need to remember that we're all at different places and on different levels of this process of discerning who we are in God's eyes. He's not going to feed me the same level of truth as He is someone like Gayla or Claire because I would never understand it. What He will do - what I trust Him to do - is to expose me to people that can carry me up the ladder to becoming more mature, more obedient and more wise to what His real meaning is behind His words. What might be obvious to some might not yet be obvious to me (hence, why I see more "mystery" in God than someone like Gayla might.

    CCC was started as a way to discuss points of view and this post and comments is a great way to show that benefit off. I believe there is an ultimate truth but I also believe what is obvious to one person might not be to another because they are still eating cereal while others are dining on escargot.

    Man, am I hungry now! :-)

    This was a great discussion. Everyone expressed themselves in a very loving and Christian way and now we all see why the world of Christians don't all attend the same denomination of church or read the same Bible interpretation. We have different views because of our differning places and we need to trust that God is standing behind this discussion guiding us all to His truth...whether we realize what that truth is now or 50 years from now.

    DID I TELL YOU I LOVED THIS CHAPTER??? It sure got us all cooking!!! (Man, there's another food reference! What's UP with me???)

    By Blogger HeyJules, at 3:41 PM  

  • excellently stated, Jules

    By Blogger dangermama, at 4:28 PM  

  • Jules, I think you nailed it with what you said. And I'm totally with you. We're all at different points in our maturity in the faith. And there's nothing wrong with that. God does bring us each along in His own timing.

    What I object to is the notion that such & such is 'your' truth, but it may not be 'my' truth. It is our obligation as Believers to point others (as well as those who may not be as far along in the faith) to the truth that is found in Scripture. And as I said earlier, truth is truth. There is only one 'meaning' to that which is said by the writers. Different applications in our lives, yes. But actual meaning - one. It's not up for debate or individual 'interpretations.'

    Perhaps you're referencing food b/c the writer of Hebrews does in Chapt 5, 10-14. ;)

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:45 PM  

  • Excellently stated all! I tried to post a comment twice and it didn't take so I took that as my clue from the dear Lord to keep my mouth shut! Which I did! :) Aren't you just so proud of me for being obedient?! ;)

    By Blogger Pilot Mom, at 5:58 PM  

  • Claire, you never fail to make me giggle! Like God wants YOU of all people to shut up! I believe we all know the "truth" of that statement and that is "Claire knows of which she speaks so let the woman talk!"

    You were saying??? :-)

    By Blogger HeyJules, at 7:13 PM  

  • *blush*
    Jules, oh, never mind!

    By Blogger Pilot Mom, at 10:06 PM  

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