An Instructive Moment about Humility (Luke 18:9-14)
I see the purpose of this parable as that one cannot trust in himself for righteousness and should not view others with contempt (v.9).
"Oh what a troubled web we weave when we first practice to decieve" is what popped up in my mind when I first read this passage. The Pharisee spent his time telling God how good he was, how he kept the Law by fasting, how he tithed, AND he considered himself better than other people. What a rude awakening he was in for as he was using other people as his standard for measuring righteousness. Poor guy, he totally missed the mark.
On the other hand, the poor tax collector used GOD as his standard for measuring righteousness. He understood that he had to throw himself on the very mercy of God for forgiveness. We all need to understand that the measure that is used to see how good we are is our perfect and holy God Himself. There is no way on God's green earth we are ever going to measure up to His standard because of our sin, which permeates us.
I see Jesus' application of this parable echoing His teaching in Luke 13:30 "And behold, some are last who will be first and some are first who will be last." The point being that it is necessary for people to humble themselves before God to gain forgiveness, and those who are proud will be brought low by God. Which reminds me of another verse which is scary, "It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (Hebrews 10:31).
The good news is that God's love and justice are perfectly balanced at the Cross. With God, His moral character and wisdom would not allow it otherwise. He could not have two pounds of love and only one pound of justice, or vice versa. There is no ambivalence in the biblical picture of God. He is 100% loving; He is 100% just. The word just is defined as "righteous, fair, equitable." Measured against His perfection, we all need forgiveness. We may be better than someone else, or worse than someone else, but heaven, by definition, can be no less than absolute perfection. Again, God's rightness and lovingkindness have designed a redemptive answer: the Cross. To me, His fairness and sinlessness are a comfort.
I love Him! I am aghast that someone can't or won't. From the beginning, God's solution for our moral deficit was the sacrifical system. Offerings of animals and grains were brought to the Lord in thanksgiving and celebration and as evidence of repentance for wrongdoing. The sacrifices offered to God brought forgiveness to the person who offered them. They were offered in place of the person who gave them.
The extraordinary design of the Cross displays one almighty God dying for people everywhere. This is not a mere human we're talking about dying to pay the debt for one other human being; it is the eternal God Himself offered as a sacrifice for every person born into the world. The sentence, the punishment that should have fallen on us, fell on Him. We are the beneficiaries of God's merciful design. For the life of me, I will never understand why someone would reject His love and choose to forfeit fellowship with Him for eternity!
"One person can take the punishment for another person. One God can take the punishment for every person on the planet." ~ Paul Little
"Oh what a troubled web we weave when we first practice to decieve" is what popped up in my mind when I first read this passage. The Pharisee spent his time telling God how good he was, how he kept the Law by fasting, how he tithed, AND he considered himself better than other people. What a rude awakening he was in for as he was using other people as his standard for measuring righteousness. Poor guy, he totally missed the mark.
On the other hand, the poor tax collector used GOD as his standard for measuring righteousness. He understood that he had to throw himself on the very mercy of God for forgiveness. We all need to understand that the measure that is used to see how good we are is our perfect and holy God Himself. There is no way on God's green earth we are ever going to measure up to His standard because of our sin, which permeates us.
I see Jesus' application of this parable echoing His teaching in Luke 13:30 "And behold, some are last who will be first and some are first who will be last." The point being that it is necessary for people to humble themselves before God to gain forgiveness, and those who are proud will be brought low by God. Which reminds me of another verse which is scary, "It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (Hebrews 10:31).
The good news is that God's love and justice are perfectly balanced at the Cross. With God, His moral character and wisdom would not allow it otherwise. He could not have two pounds of love and only one pound of justice, or vice versa. There is no ambivalence in the biblical picture of God. He is 100% loving; He is 100% just. The word just is defined as "righteous, fair, equitable." Measured against His perfection, we all need forgiveness. We may be better than someone else, or worse than someone else, but heaven, by definition, can be no less than absolute perfection. Again, God's rightness and lovingkindness have designed a redemptive answer: the Cross. To me, His fairness and sinlessness are a comfort.
I love Him! I am aghast that someone can't or won't. From the beginning, God's solution for our moral deficit was the sacrifical system. Offerings of animals and grains were brought to the Lord in thanksgiving and celebration and as evidence of repentance for wrongdoing. The sacrifices offered to God brought forgiveness to the person who offered them. They were offered in place of the person who gave them.
The extraordinary design of the Cross displays one almighty God dying for people everywhere. This is not a mere human we're talking about dying to pay the debt for one other human being; it is the eternal God Himself offered as a sacrifice for every person born into the world. The sentence, the punishment that should have fallen on us, fell on Him. We are the beneficiaries of God's merciful design. For the life of me, I will never understand why someone would reject His love and choose to forfeit fellowship with Him for eternity!
"One person can take the punishment for another person. One God can take the punishment for every person on the planet." ~ Paul Little
posted by Pilot Mom at
8:26 AM
15 Comments:
I liked your comments about humility. Our God is gracious and his wisdom is amazing. I was a bit taken back by your comment about "one almighty God dying". That and "the eternal God Himself offered as a sacrifice" comment. The Old Testament is full of teaching about God being one and only one. Jesus confirmed the truth of the OT Scriptures many times and confirmed the truth of God being one as the most important commandment (Mark 12:29). Jesus claimed for himself the title of Christ, which means the Messiah of OT prophesy (see John 1:41, 4:25-26). He claimed that his Father was the "only true God" (John 17:3). Jesus said that his Father was his God (John 20:17). If Jesus is God, does God have a God? Yes, Jesus is uniquely born. There has never been another brought into being as he was. Not even Adam. But that does not make him God. Have you considered that if the Trinity is true, there being 3 distinct persons, then the Father is not the Father of Jesus? The Holy Spirit would be (Matt. 1:18,20 Luke 1:35).
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Anonymous, at 2:12 AM
Great post but wow, do I love the quote at the end. That might just have to end up on my new website...
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HeyJules, at 8:48 AM
There's an aspect of the sacrificial that we forget... that it was a part of the Universe long before human beings walked the earth. Ever since the primordial flaring forth, the Let there be light... one form of existence has been sacrificed to bring forth another. All part of God's way... God's plan. When we humans decided we were better than the rest of creation and didn't have to play by those rules, that was (is) as much a sin as anything else you can list.
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Claire Joy, at 9:09 AM
Welcome Pder to our discussion. I hope you drop in often and I pray you leave refreshed.
As to your question...
The first thing to pop into my mind when I was reading your comment was the verse in Colossians 2:9 "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form."
The doctrine of the Trinity is difficult and perplexing. No doubt about it. The term "Trinity" describes a relationship not of three gods, but of one God who is three persons. Trinity doesn't mean tritheism,either, meaning that there are three beings who together are God. The word "Trinity" is used in an effort to define the fullness of the Godhead both in terms of His unity and diversity.
It is certainly not an easy thing to understand. In fact, I dare say, if you find someone saying that they understand the Trinity I would think them, at the very least, slightly deluded.
I guess the historical formulation is that God is one in essence and three in person. It's mysterious and even paradoxical but it is in no way contradictory. The unity of the Godhead is affirmed in terms of essence or being, while the diversity fo the Godhead is expressed in terms of person.
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Pilot Mom, at 10:40 AM
Pder, cont...
The concept is clearly in the Bible. On the one hand the Bible strongly affirms the unity of God (Deuteronomy 6:4). On the other hand the Bible clearly affirms the full deity of the three persons of the Godhead: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
My understanding is that the term "person" does not mean a distinction in essence but a different subsistence in the Godhead. Each person subsists or exists "under" the pure essence of deity. Subsistence is a difference within the scope of being, not a separate being or essence. All persons in the Godhead have all the attributes of deity.
I would say too, that there is a distinction in the work done by each member of the Trinity. The work of salvation is in one sense common to all three persons of the Trinity. Yet in the manner of activity, there are differing operations assumed by the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. For instance, the Father initiates creation and redemption; the Son redeems the creation; and the Holy Spirit regenerates and sanctifies, applying redemption to believers.
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Pilot Mom, at 10:49 AM
Pder, cont...
It is a difficult concept to grasp since God is infinite and we are finite.
The doctine of the Trinity does not fully explain the mysterious character of God. Rather, it sets the boundaries outside of which we must not step. It defines the limits of our finite reflection. It demands that we be faithful to the beblical revelation that in one sense God is one and in a different sense He is three.
Another verse which comes to mind is John 10:30 "I and the Father are one." This is the clearest statement of Jesus' divinity He ever made. He is God.
I hope I answered you clear enough and didn't make the issue any merkier. :)
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Pilot Mom, at 10:59 AM
Well if you didn't help pder, you sure helped me. :-)
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HeyJules, at 11:31 AM
Thank you pilot mom for the welcome to your discussion. Last night I was surfing blogs and came across yours. I didn't realize the nature of it as being an ongoing discussion. Your post was at the top and I read it and responded to it. I was drawn in by the opening of your post as you wrote about humility.
I would like to throw my 2 cents worth in, if I may, regarding your statements about the Trinity in response to my comment last night. You said "It is certainly not an easy thing to understand. In fact, I dare say, if you find someone saying that they understand the Trinity I would think them, at the very least, slightly deluded." And "The doctine of the Trinity does not fully explain the mysterious character of God. Rather, it sets the boundaries outside of which we must not step. It defines the limits of our finite reflection. It demands that we be faithful to the beblical revelation that in one sense God is one and in a different sense He is three."
If the doctrine of the Trinity makes demands that we be faithful to a revelation that God is in one sense one and in a different sense three It makes me glad that the teaching of the Trinity is not actually to be found in the Scriptures. Particularly if no one can understand it. The "historical formulation" is just that. The first several centuries after Christ and the Apostles were no longer on the scene numerous church councils wrangled with the terms essence, persons, subsistence and so on and came up with their creeds which they then imposed on the laity with threats of excommunication and confiscation of property and such like. Perhaps you're familiar with the Nicene Creed. It is actually Binitarian. It wasn't until it was "refined" about 56 years later at the council of Constantinople that the Holy Spirit is included to make God a Triune God.
John 10:30 is a verse which needs some careful thought. If Jesus, by saying "I and the Father are one" is meaning to tell us that he is one essence with the father, the same being but a different person or subsistence, then that will cause problems elsewhere. First, consider that the Jews had just asked Jesus if he was the Christ (vs.24) saying, "tell us plainly". Jesus said (vs.25) "I told you and you do not believe". Jesus goes on to say "The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of me". In other words, they bear witness that I am the Christ. The term or title "Christ" carries a very different meaning than "God". Jesus reasons with them in vs. 34-36 and states plainly his claim. "I am the Son of God". The title "Son of God" is a synonym for Christ based on the Davidic Covenant.
Jesus makes the claim to be Christ, not one essence with the Father. The "I and the Father are one" statement is the language of unity. In John 17:11 Jesus prays for his disciples "that they may be one as we (he and the Father) are". The Greek "kathos" translated "as" means "even as, just as, in the (same) degree that". Could Jesus be praying that the disciples would be one essence and different subsistences just as he and the Father are? He also prays that you and I (all those who believe in me through their [the Apostles] word) would be one. He is praying for unity of those who believe in him. This can only be accomplished if we are humble and long suffering with one another, wouldn't you agree?
The Apostle Paul uses the same language of unity. In Romans 15:6 he is praying for the believers that they "may with one mind and one mouth glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ." I'm sure he wants everyone to use their own mind and mouth. He just wants it done in a spirit of unity. And notice, it is the God and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ that he wants glorified.
Time will not permit me to go on, and maybe that is a relief for you. :) There is certainly a lot more I'd like to say.
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Anonymous, at 2:02 AM
Pder, I will address your comments as soon as possible but it may be a day or two before I can. My mother, who is quite elderly is very ill and I am taking her to the hospital today. So I'm not able to address them today. Hopefully, no later than this weekend. Please check back. Or, you can check my actual blogsight as to whether or not I'm back posting. www.pilotmom.blogspot.com
I'm looking forward to our continuing discussion. Thank you.
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Pilot Mom, at 11:45 AM
Pder,
Thank you for your patience during my time away.
Let me begin by addressing just John 10:30, if I may.
Yes, the leaders surrounded Jesus in the temple for a "showdown". They no longer wanted Him to evade the issue any longer. "Tell us plainly...are You the Messiah?"
Our Lord responded with an explanation (10:25-38) that only reminded them of what He had already taught them. He emphasized the witness of His words ("I told you") and His works (see 5:17ff; and 7:14ff for similar replies).
But our Lord went much deeper in His explanation this time, for He revealed to the Jewish leaders why they did not understand His words or grasp the significance of His works: they were not His sheep. From the human standpoint, we become His sheep by believing; but from the divine standpoint, we believe because we are His sheep. There is a mystery here that we cannot fathom or explain, but we can accept it and rejoice (Romans 11:33-36). God has His sheep and He knows who they are. They will hear His voice and respond.
...cont. below....
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Pilot Mom, at 11:12 PM
Pder,
Our Lord made a statement that He knew would startle His enemies and give them more reason to oppose Him (John 10:30). It was the "plain answer" that the religious leaders had asked for. "I and My Father are one" is as clear a statement of His deity as you will find anywhere in Scripture. This was even stronger than His statement that He had come down from heaven (John 6) or that He existed before Abraham ever lived (8:58).
The word "one" does not suggest the Father and the Son are identical persons. Rather, it means that they are one in essence: the Father is God and the Son is God, but the Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Father. He is speaking about unity, not identity. (See 17:21-24 for similar language.)
The Jewish leaders understood clearly what He was saying! Some modern liberal theologians would water down our Lord's statement, but the people who heard it knew exactly what He was saying: "I am God!" (Note v. 33.) To speak this way, of course, was blasphemy; and according to Jewish belief, blasphemy had to be punished by being put to death (see Lev. 24:16; Num 15:30ff; Deut. 21:22). ...cont below...
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Pilot Mom, at 11:22 PM
pder,
Our Lord used Psalm 82:6 to refute their accusation and halt their actions. The picture in Psalm 82 is that of a court, where God has assembled the judges of the earth, to warn them that they too will one day be judged. The Hebrew word "elohim" can be translated as "god" or as "judges," as in Exodus 21:6 and 22:8-9. It is also one of the Old Testament names for God. The Jewish rulers certainly knew their own language and they knew that Jesus was speaking the truth. If God called human judges "gods," then why should they stone Him for applying the same title to Himself?
John 10:36 is crucial because it gives a doble affirmation of the deity of Christ. First, the Father sanctified (set apart) the Son and sent Him into the world, and second, Jesus stated boldly, "I am the Son of God" (see 5:25). He gave them the "plain answer" they asked for, but they would not believe it!
Could they have believed? Jesus invited them, urged them, to believe, if only on the basis of His miracles (John 10:37-38). If they would believe the miracles, then they would know the Father, and that would open the way for them to know the Son and believe on Him. It was simply a metter of examining the evidence honestly and being willing to accept the truth. cont below
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Pilot Mom, at 11:29 PM
pder,
Once again, they tried to arrest Him (see &;44; 8:59), but He escaped and left the area completely. He did not return to Jerusalem until "Palm Sunday," when He presented Himself as Israel's King.
John the Baptist had ministerd at Bethabara (1:28), but we are not sure where this was. It was on the other side of the Jordan River, perhaps eighteen to twenty miles from Jerusalem. Some maps put it almost directly across from Jerusalem, just east of Jericho.
Why did Jesus go there? For one thing, it was a safe retreat; the Jewish religious leaders were not likely to follow Him there. Also, it was a good place to prepare for His final week of public ministry when He would lay down His life for the sheep. As He remembered His own baptism by John, and all that He had experienced at that time (1:20-34; Matt. 3:13-17), it must have fortified Him for the suffering that He knew He must endure.
I will address the rest of your comments tomorrow, if I may. I do have one question for you, if you don't mind. Have you personally responded to our Lord? Is He your Lord and Savior? Ok, maybe three quesstions...Have you given yourself to Him and received eternal life? I pray so. Until tomorrow. Also, please forgive typos...I am tired. :)
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Pilot Mom, at 11:40 PM
pilot mom,
Thanks for your reply. You must be a very busy lady. Hospitals and medical situations can require lots of time and energy. I hope your mom is doing well.
I’ll give you a short bio in response to your questions. I was raised in a Baptist home. I accepted Jesus as a child. I did sow some wild oats in my youth and became a hippie for a number of years. At age 25 I called out to God because I knew I was headed in a direction that was going to bring some serious sorrow and damage to my family and myself. I was married with 2 small children. God immediately drew me to Jesus. I have followed Jesus to the best of my understanding and ability for the last 30 years. I have been involved in evangelistic programs. I was an assistant pastor for about a year and a half at a small independent church. I played on worship teams at the churches I attended (Foursquare, Assembly of God, Calvary Chapel and nondenominational) for about 18 years. I spent close to 5 years playing in two different evangelistic bands that played in churches, parks, prisons, missions, etc.
More directly and to the point, I am a believer in Jesus as the Christ. Christ is not by definition a co-equal, co-eternal second member of a Triune Godhead. Christ means anointed, anointed by God. 1 John 5:1 says, “Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God.” John says 4 and 5 verses later “For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?” Son of God is a term for the Son of David that is to rule in the Kingdom of God (John 1:49, Luke 1:32-33). “Son of God” and “God the Son” are not equivalent terms. You will never see “God the Son” in the Bible.
I have been a regular Bible reader for the last 30 years but never as intently as the last 4 years. I’ve been finding that some of the traditions I learned in church are just that—man’s traditions. The doctrine of the Trinity is one of those traditions. There are more problems with it besides the fact that you just can’t do the math. 1+1+1=3 and 1divided by 3 equals 1/3 but never 1=3 or 3=1. I’m not writing to disparage or ridicule anyone’s beliefs. This is an extremely serious issue.
Studying the origin of the doctrine of the Trinity is an eye opener in itself. Church history is seldom taught in churches for good reason. The doctrine of the Trinity does not go back to the Apostles. Look what Paul says in Gal. 3:20. “God is one.” What an excellent opportunity Paul had to explain that God was three in one. Paul stuck with the Monotheism of the Hebrew Scriptures just as Jesus did.
The doctrine of the Trinity says that Jesus is co-equal with the Father. Jesus says, “my Father is greater than I” (John 14:28). Jesus confirms as the greatest commandment that God is one (Mk 12:29). That in itself should make any Bible believer stop in his or her tracks before saying, “no, God is three in one.” I am not an advocate of Modalism either (Jesus only).
If your starting point is the Trinity as you read the Scriptures, you will find verses that will confirm your belief for you. If your starting point is the Hebrew Scriptures that Jesus confirmed as true, that constantly attest to God being one, you will find ample evidence that God is one. And, you will find ample evidence in the New Testament that God is one. You will also find that Jesus has a God; it is the God of Israel.
I would love to go on but time will not permit. I am familiar with the verses that you mentioned in the above reply. I have studied them. Changing from Trinitarian to Monotheist does not happen over night. If you are open to further dialogue, I would love to look at individual scriptures with you as time permits.
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Anonymous, at 3:12 AM
Pder, would you mind giving me a list of verses to study? And, if you don't mind give me your email address and then we can converse through email as time permits and not take up any more space in the comment box on a topic which doesn't pertain to what we are reading here in CCC. Will that work for you? Or you can email me...just make sure you put "Pder/CCC" in the subject line. You can email me at:
afpilotmom@yahoo.com
Blessings to you...
By
Pilot Mom, at 5:26 PM
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